another antivax myth (ingestion vs injection)

There’s an oft-repeated claim by the more strident antivaxxers that ingesting and injecting are two different things when it comes to subsantces like aluminium. This betrays a disturbing lack of knowledge of biology and physiology (especially from those who boast of ‘having done their research’), but they repeat it nonetheless. (Red’s self-belief is mildly amusing.)

The aluminium present in vaccines (as an adjuvant; see later) enters the interstitial fluid (the fluid that bathes all cells) & eventually the bloodstream. However, what Red is completely unwilling to accept, despite a large amount of evidence to the contrary, is that the same thing happens to aluminium contained in food and drink. I did try.

There’s been quite a lot of research on this, as it happens (& as another commenter, Paul, pointed out at length. For his pains he was blocked by another antivaxxer; as she’d started that particular thread, her action made it invisible to Paul. I guess she just couldn’t stand being presented with material that consistently refuted her stance, but it does say something – actually, it says a lot! – about her willingness to consider all available evidence.) Both food and drink contain low levels of aluminium, as does the air we breathe (allbeit in tiny amounts). This is partly the result of aluminium being so plentiful, and widely distributed, in the earth’s crust, and partly because it’s added to a range of foodstuffs. It’s also released into the air by coal-fired power plants. The CDC states that in the US, an average adult daily intake is 7-9mg of aluminium – but the great majority of that is rapidly elininated in faeces and urine, and perhaps also across the skin. So, if Red wants to completely avoid her children avoiding ingestion of aluminium, she’ll have to put them on a very restricted diet.

Of course, to leave via urine the aluminium must first enter the bloodstream. It crosses the gut wall by moving either through cells (‘transcellular’) or between them (‘paracellular’), and thence across capillary walls into the blood. At which point, that ingested Al is in exactly the same place as the injected Al – which as this author makes clear, is “dissolved in the interstitial fluid, absorbed into the blood, distributed to tissues, and eliminated in the urine” – only there’s much more from the ingestion route, compared to injection.

And then it mostly leaves the body, rather rapidly. For injected aluminium, the great majority is eliminated from the body within just a few days post-injection. However, all this is something that Red & her associates are completely unwilling to accept.

Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for my $hill-bucks to arrive…

Actually, I’m also still waiting for a citation to support the claim that “vaccinated kids have so much brain damage”. I guess that’ll be a while in coming.

8 thoughts on “another antivax myth (ingestion vs injection)”

  • herr doktor bimler says:

    “$hill-bucks”? I believe you are paid in pre-decimal currency, that’s why the activity is called “shilling”.

  • Perhaps the difference is in the speed at which the aluminum enters the bloodstream and then crosses the blood brain barrier at a rapid rate due to the decreased blood brain barrier protection at and immediately after the injection. The BBB decreases when a person is in pain, has a fever, or has high blood pressure, all of which are considered to be typical responses to a vaccination. While the levels of aluminum in foods and vaccinations are rationalized, the truth still stands that there is really no safe level of heavy metals in the human body. This is particularly true as it has the potential to be “fast tracked” across the BBB at the time of injection.

    • “This is particularly true as it has the potential to be “fast tracked” across the BBB at the time of injection.”

      Except that it doesn’t. Vaccines are administered into the muscle, not the bloodstream. In addition, the aluminium salt (not elemental aluminium) used as an adjuvant) used in some vaccines acts in part to retain the vaccine materials in the muscle long enough to attract the attention of immune cells and initiate the development of an immunological response. The aluminium salts enter the bloodstream only very slowly & in fact after a month almost all the original amount remains at the injection site.

      There’s a detailed explanation of why your claims about aluminium crossing the BBB are wrong here (written by a scientist who has specialised in understanding how the BBB works): https://scientistabe.wordpress.com/2017/04/15/sciencesjunk-sciencesbbb-aluminum-adjuvants-in-vaccines-and-the-blood-brain-barrier-removing-the-facts-from-the-fiction-the-good-science-from-the-junk-science/

      “the truth still stands that there is really no safe level of heavy metals in the human body.”
      Apart from the fact that it’s a bit of a stretch to describe Al as a heavy metal (yes, I know that some sources do), you should remember that our entire evolutionary history, from the Last Universal Common Ancestor, has been spent in an environment where aluminium compounds are present. Presumably our ability to clear Al from our tissues is the result of that selection pressure.

  • Can you provide studies that show the aluminum and other ingredients leaving the muscle tissue slowly and that the majority remains at the injection site please? Also after a month its still at the injection site? When does it ever leave? Please provide creditable souces. Thank you!

    • You’re saying that a blog post by a blood-brain-barrier scientist, who provides hotlinks to references supporting their statements, isn’t “creditable”?

  • Ugg, this is such a typical snow job. It’s all about absorbtion rate. We have been exposed to aluminum for many millions of years, so our system knows it’s a neurotoxin and knows to get rid of it. But up until the current vaccine policy, all that aluminum was ingested one way or another (with the exception of
    AL containing deodorants…of which there are now many alternatives because it absorbs thru the skin and has been linked to breast cancer among other things). As long as it stays in the digestive system, it’s really not a problem…it’s recognized as a neurotoxin and 99.7% gets pooped out…never touching the circulatory system. Only 0.3% gets to the blood stream, which the kidneys are able to pee out fairly easily…massive difference between poop and pee here, lol. Injected aluminum is an ENTIRELY different animal because it bypasses the body’s filter system. It does go into body tissue (not straight to the blood stream), but the absorbtion rate to the blood stream is about 60% in a healthy adult, and higher in a child. Acting like 0.3% is the same difference as 60% is amazingly dishonest or just plain uninformed on basic biology. Nevermind that the environmental AL comes at a very slow drip that the kidneys can handle (thanks to the gut doing most of the work), whereas the vaccine based aluminum comes all at once and absolutely has the capacity to overload the kidneys, stick around in the blood, and hitch a ride on any number of other molecules to get past the blood brain barrier. This process has been demonstrated multiple times in animal studies. Mice were injected with aluminum containing vaccines, or equivalent amounts of aluminum, tested to show all kinds of neurological deficits compared to the control group, then killed and dissected to show aluminum accumulation in the brain and brain stem.
    There was another study done to show the safety of aluminum. It measured blood levels of AL in both groups first, then one was given a placebo, while the other was given a aluminum containing vaccines. Then blood levels were measured after. Blood levels were almost identical afterwards, so the study concluded that AL was super safe, and furthermore, they recommended that no further research be done on the subject…scientific certainty had been reached and any further research on the subject was a waste of time and money. One small problem with the whole study that you only catch if you actually read the whole thing (not just the abstract): both the placebo and the vaccine were ORALLY administered…the rats were fed the vaccine, so their gut filtered out 99.7% of the aluminum…of course there wasn’t hardly any difference in blood levels between the groups. It’s easy to get led around by the nose in this arena, as it’s a complicated subject…but just understanding the gut’s filtering function will help separate the BS artists out there telling you aluminum is fine. It’s not. It’s a neurotoxin that’s used to make the immune system freak the f**k out, which is essential to making any vaccine actually work, but also can trigger a cascade of tremendously damaging effects on the immune system as well as the brain. But don’t listen to me, just keep gulping down whatever pharmas tells us we should, because blindly trusting their “research” is a fantastic idea…just ask all the peeps dead from the opioid epidemic…pharmas said 20mg/day of heroin was just fine (and docs believed it because they were just following the “research”)

    • Ugg, this is such a typical snow job. It’s all about absorbtion rate. We have been exposed to aluminum for many millions of years, so our system knows it’s a neurotoxin and knows to get rid of it. But up until the current vaccine policy, all that aluminum was ingested one way or another (with the exception of AL containing deodorants…of which there are now many alternatives because it absorbs thru the skin and has been linked to breast cancer among other things)

      Al compounds are also inhaled…

      But anyway, I see you haven’t provided a citation for this claim. Perhaps because it’s been debunked? Shaw & Tomjlenovich published a paper making the claim in the Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry (strangely, not in a mainstream science/oncology journal). However, their analysis failed at the first hurdle by failing to recognise that mammary tissue is not evenly distributed in the breast – it extends well up into the armpit. Once that was allowed for, there was no statistically-significant difference in the frequency of tumours in the various quadrants of the breast. I’ve discussed that here.

      As long as it stays in the digestive system, it’s really not a problem…it’s recognized as a neurotoxin

      Please explain the mechanism by which this happens. Also please provide a citation showing that the concentration of aluminium salts in a vaccine is ‘neurotoxic’ at that level.

      and 99.7% gets pooped out…never touching the circulatory system. Only 0.3% gets to the blood stream, which the kidneys are able to pee out fairly easily…massive difference between poop and pee here, lol. Injected aluminum is an ENTIRELY different animal because it bypasses the body’s filter system.
      Given that the kidneys are a filtration (& concentration) system, this is hard to believe. Injected aluminium can and does eventually make its way into the bloodstream & thence – automatically – to the kidneys (as described here).

      It does go into body tissue (not straight to the blood stream), but the absorbtion rate to the blood stream is about 60% in a healthy adult, and higher in a child. Acting like 0.3% is the same difference as 60% is amazingly dishonest or just plain uninformed on basic biology.

      “uninformed on basic biology” hahahahahaha.

      Sorry, but that really is funny. And your preceding comment is amazingly (your word) intellectually dishonest, because it assumes that the baseline quantities are equal. They are not. 60% of a tiny amount is a drop in the bucket compared to 0.3% of a relatively larger quantity that is continually entering the body.

      Nevermind that the environmental AL comes at a very slow drip that the kidneys can handle (thanks to the gut doing most of the work), whereas the vaccine based aluminum comes all at once and absolutely has the capacity to overload the kidneys, stick around in the blood, and hitch a ride on any number of other molecules to get past the blood brain barrier.

      Let me remind you again about the significance of concentration. Daily aluminium intake via diet and inhalation is about 7-9mg. That’s per day. The intake from a vaccine is less than 1mg (bearing in mind that many vaccines don’t contain any) – on an occasional basis. The aluminium salts don’t all enter the bloodstream in one hit, but gradually, and using Al-26 clearly shows that it is then almost all excreted, so clearly the kidneys can cope. Actual blood-brain-barrier scientists disagree with the claim about adjuvants ‘hitching a ride’ through that barrier (eg https://scientistabe.wordpress.com/2017/04/15/sciencesjunk-sciencesbbb-aluminum-adjuvants-in-vaccines-and-the-blood-brain-barrier-removing-the-facts-from-the-fiction-the-good-science-from-the-junk-science/). And it’s clear from multiple studies (eg https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22001122.1) “that the body burden of aluminum from vaccines and diet throughout an infant’s first year of life is significantly less than the corresponding safe body burden of aluminum modeled using the regulatory MRL”.

      This process has been demonstrated multiple times in animal studies. Mice were injected with aluminum containing vaccines, or equivalent amounts of aluminum, tested to show all kinds of neurological deficits compared to the control group, then killed and dissected to show aluminum accumulation in the brain and brain stem.

      And yet again, you haven’t provided any citations to support this claim.

      There was another study done to show the safety of aluminum. It measured blood levels of AL in both groups first, then one was given a placebo, while the other was given a aluminum containing vaccines. Then blood levels were measured after. Blood levels were almost identical afterwards, so the study concluded that AL was super safe, and furthermore, they recommended that no further research be done on the subject…scientific certainty had been reached and any further research on the subject was a waste of time and money. One small problem with the whole study that you only catch if you actually read the whole thing (not just the abstract): both the placebo and the vaccine were ORALLY administered…the rats were fed the vaccine, so their gut filtered out 99.7% of the aluminum…of course there wasn’t hardly any difference in blood levels between the groups.

      And no citation for this one, either. Why is that?

      It’s easy to get led around by the nose in this arena, as it’s a complicated subject…but just understanding the gut’s filtering function will help separate the BS artists out there telling you aluminum is fine. It’s not. It’s a neurotoxin that’s used to make the immune system freak the f**k out, which is essential to making any vaccine actually work, but also can trigger a cascade of tremendously damaging effects on the immune system as well as the brain.,/i>

      Aluminium salts make the antigens to which they are conjugated more visible to the immune system. That’s it. If you have evidence of a “cascade of tremendously damaging effects on the immune system”, feel free to provide it here.

      But don’t listen to me, just keep gulping down whatever pharmas tells us we should,

      I don’t. I read the actual scientific papers, and take it from there.

      because blindly trusting their “research” is a fantastic idea…just ask all the peeps dead from the opioid epidemic…pharmas said 20mg/day of heroin was just fine (and docs believed it because they were just following the “research”)

      … aaaand citation required. Again.

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